"It seems to be becoming some kind of Islamic society," says SGP list leader Stoffer

SGP leader Chris Stoffer (51) had a busy weekend. His election congress was on Saturday, and immediately afterward, he drove home to Nunspeet to celebrate his birthday. SGP members never work on Sundays; that day is for God. This is how the Reformed Political Party, a party for the most doctrinally strict religious groups in the Netherlands, has done it since its founding in 1918.

That's why Stoffer was "less aware than many others" on Monday morning of how The Hague was overrun on Saturday by far-right groups who demonstrated against "cancer asylum centers," waved NSB flags, chanted "Sieg Heil," attacked the police, and pelted the D66 party office in the city center with stones. "Terrible violence," Stoffer said. "I immediately contacted Rob Jetten (D66) that Saturday to wish him strength. Fortunately, there were no people in that office."

According to Jetten, these people were incited by Geert Wilders. Do you agree?

"No, I don't think so. We see this kind of violence everywhere, including at universities."

Stoffer refers to the pro-Palestinian demonstrations at Dutch universities, where police have had to intervene in recent years.

"But I don't think anyone in this house wants to incite violence from any quarter. And everyone is always responsible for their own actions. So that includes those people who are smashing things up there.

But we in the House of Representatives must be careful not to overstate our rhetoric. We're setting the example here. It starts small. Last week, I visited a school during the General Political Debate, and the leader of the Party for the Animals let out a terribly ugly exclamation. [Party for the Animals leader Esther Ouwehand said " fucking hell ," ed.] That teacher said: 'I'm trying to raise these children here in a decent way. Are you behaving yourself?'"

So is Wilders responsible for the hardening of the situation?

I'm not going to point fingers at one party; I think it's broader. On the other hand, on the left, I see someone like Frans Timmermans. He's not the one who's downgrading his tone, so to speak, on every front. We all need to take it to heart. It's a somewhat reformed term, but we need to introspect a bit.

It's about right-wing extremism, but you immediately bring the left into it. According to the AIVD (General Intelligence and Security Service), right-wing extremists are more willing to use violence, better organized, and want to overthrow the government. Is the SGP too preoccupied with left-wing extremism?

"I immediately distanced myself from these people in The Hague. Using violence is simply unacceptable. But that also applies to the left. What you saw at universities around the pro-Palestine rallies, things being smashed up...

"There are groups, and that can be appealing, who say: we're going to do it this way. I'm really afraid of that. And that's from both the right wing and the left wing."

Is Islam a danger to the Netherlands?

Stoffer pauses. "Yes. I think so. It seems to be turning into some kind of Islamic society. I'm very afraid that will go much further here in the Netherlands. That's far from my ideal, a society shaped by the Bible. It also affects everyday life. We have to prevent people from getting into trouble."

The pinch?

I walk through the Schilderswijk neighborhood quite often; all the shops are decorated with Arabic signs. It seems like it's becoming more prevalent. The Dutch no longer feel like we simply have that normal Dutch culture. That's when people resort to this horrific violence. If you talk to them one-on-one, they probably wouldn't have wanted that at all. We shouldn't put people in a bind, whether they're farmers, or people who think 'nothing's being done about the climate,' or people whose neighborhoods are being taken over by Islam.

It seems like you understand the far-right protest.

“Not at all, you should always do it through debate and discussion.”

Is labeling Islam as a danger polarizing?

"That depends on how you approach it. You can say: I no longer recognize myself in the part of the Netherlands where I live, and you really have to do something about that. That doesn't mean you should tar everyone who is Muslim with the same brush. You also have to keep emphasizing that a significant number of people here integrate perfectly well, participate in society, and know what May 5th is. And you have to address what's going wrong."

Many other parties feel something is wrong with the SGP. This year, no women are allowed on the list again. Do you think that's a shame?

“It's not so much about what I think.”

You're the political leader of the party, shouldn't you have an opinion about this?

"Then you certainly shouldn't always express your own opinion. The executive board has made a choice, and I support that. If I no longer feel comfortable with what the executive board is doing, then I have to say: guys, I'm leaving the party."

The debate about women in the House of Representatives flared up again this year when Vlissingen SGP council member Lilian Janse announced her intention to run for the House of Representatives. In an interview with NRC, she said she had the support of one of the three SGP MPs. Publicly, the parliamentary group remained silent. Janse accused the party of abandoning her.

You could have openly supported her.

That doesn't help. Of course, I think it's a shame that people feel left out. But I still hear things about the municipal elections. I think you'll see women appearing high on the list in several places.

You have three daughters, do we talk about this at the dinner table?

Stoffer laughs. "Yes, definitely, and they have opinions too. I always enjoy listening to their arguments. I don't always have to try to steer them in the right direction; I love that they have their own opinions."

Under your predecessor, Kees van der Staaij, the SGP had the reputation of being the constitutional conscience of Parliament. Do you value that reputation?

"Of course, I don't have Kees's track record. He came from the Council of State, and when he left Parliament, he went back. We're different people, too. But we value the rule of law just as much; I speak with Kees about it regularly. Not every week, mind you."

In July, the SGP (Christian Democratic Appeal) voted in favor of the Asylum Emergency Measures Act, including a PVV amendment that also criminalizes assisting undocumented immigrants. It was unclear what this amendment would mean for churches, for example. Stoffer subsequently asked the Council of State for an advisory opinion, which issued a negative ruling. The cabinet is now amending the law. CU leader Mirjam Bikker called it a "constitutional quagmire."

You approved the Asylum Emergency Measures Act, including the amendment. Did you move too quickly?

Not just us, everyone. The entire lead-up wasn't good; it was a chaotic period, that entire cabinet term. This legislative process had to be completed in one day, and it's not at all aesthetically pleasing, but the entire House should take that to heart. But with that amendment, we really made a mistake in judgment; others saw that better.

"Yes, because it's also questionable whether we can still count on the same majorities after the elections. But the cabinet initially dragged its feet on submitting the legislation. That's not how you want to treat legislation."

Not "everyone" was too hasty. The CDA supported the law but opposed the amendment. And so they voted against it.

"Yes, but if we had voted against it, those laws would have been gone. Then all the effect we wanted would be gone."

In retrospect, was it the right choice to vote for the law, even though you didn't know what it would entail?

"When you have to vote for that law, after the amendment has passed, yes. I would do it again in a heartbeat. But if I could go back further: the legislative process beforehand should have been more extensive."

The SGP voted against proposals to bring seriously ill Gazan children to the Netherlands for treatment. Why?

Well, I don't really need to dwell on that for very long. The government has indicated that more people can be helped by focusing on locations in surrounding countries, by providing additional funding, and ensuring that medical care can be provided there in abundance. The minister is willing to take on that challenge. The moment the government says, 'We think it would be wise to bring those children here,' we reconsider.

Hospitals have indicated that there is sufficient capacity in the Netherlands. According to Doctors Without Borders, it is not possible to provide adequate care in the region for complex cases – such as children with cancer or facial injuries.

Doctors Without Borders also sat in the chair where you're sitting, and we discussed it. That doesn't make it any easier. But ultimately, I value the minister's perspective. It's striking that Doctors Without Borders doesn't mention other countries where the situation is just as dire. Congo, Yemen, you name it. Ultimately, I consider the situation as a whole.

The Christian Union – with whom you often collaborate – takes a different approach. Why?

Perhaps because there's more pressure from their supporters. At our party conference last Saturday, we saw that there was some discussion about Israel, but it was less harsh on each other.

Save the Children and Doctors Without Borders say they don't understand the misconception that there's capacity in the region for children requiring complex care. Don't you believe them?

"I do believe what they're saying. But it's one-sided. We shouldn't think we can help everyone in this small country."

Compassion is a Christian value, isn't it logical that a Christian party says: we treat those children here?

"I've already indicated: for us, the decision is a significant one. But as long as the government continues to signal that there's an opportunity to help more people in the region, we'll continue to make this choice."

There's a chance that if these children come to the Netherlands, they'll apply for asylum. Does that play a role?

"No, not necessarily. We always say: the migration balance must be towards zero. But of course, this isn't about large numbers.

Some politicians accuse you of not caring about the fate of those children. Does that concern you?

"It really affects me. I'm a father myself, and I have children of my own. Those Gazan parents are also looking for the best; everyone is looking for the best. So it really affects me."

Series of interviews with party leaders